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Author Topic: The Gun Control ideology  (Read 3824 times)

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TheChoujinVirus

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The Gun Control ideology
« on: April 14, 2013, 07:51:42 am »

WARNING:What I'm discussing is sort of a bit of controversial. Let's not get into a mother of flame wars.

I'm sure everyone's hearing about the Gun Control debate here ever since the shooting in Sandy Hook. I'm trying to find some reasons in this stuff and wondering about the basis. Now, I don't advocate any disarmament of all weapons and strongly support the Second Amendment.

However, things sort of bug me on the Pro Gun side that advocate no regulations

Why do we need military grade weapons (or weapons that are simply watered down military grade ones) for the purpose of self defense?

Though I would like to see others opinions (without being a big fat flame war).

also, a bit of a loaded question that I got into a smart ass argument.

But enough on that lovely little rant, what is your take on this gun debate stuff?
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SatsumaLord

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Re: The Gun Control ideology
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2013, 10:08:18 am »

Hmmmmmmmm.  Well, I'm kinda undecided about the whole situation; and why I say that is because I'd like to point people to a couple articles in the links below.

( http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-4-most-meaningless-arguments-against-gun-control/ )
( http://www.cracked.com/article_20396_5-mind-blowing-facts-nobody-told-you-about-guns.html )

Even though they are just funny articles from a comedy website, they do kinda make some valid points.  The first one talks about how a lot of arguments against gun control don't really work; especially since phrases like "Guns don't kill people.  People kill people." and "Guns save lives." are actually kinda BS.  Namely in the fact that guns aren't tools, they're weapons.  Their soul reason and purpose to exist is to take away life.  Furthermore, there are methods to protect yourself from attackers that don't involve guns, like pepper spray and tazers, that are just as effective (if not more so) than firearms.

On the other hand though, the second article mentions how despite all the stories that were hear about "rampant gun violence", actual gun violence is going down; to the point where it's actually very noticeable compared to previous years.  Furthermore, the vast majority of people that do in fact buy guns (even the stuff that'd be considered "overkill") are actually very responsible human beings and have no interest in committing any crimes or horrible acts against the human species.

So in the end, it really is hard to pick a side; especially if after looking at all the facts and arguments, both sides kinda make sense.

Though I will admit, a lot of the people that are the most vocal about the "Pro-Gun" issue, are also the same people that really shouldn't be representing that side to begin with.  ^_^;
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 10:09:55 am by SatsumaLord »
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Amenshawn

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Re: The Gun Control ideology
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2013, 02:59:49 am »

What a lot of people don't understand about guns is that appearance alone does not make it an 'assault rifle' or 'military grade'.  Most firearms on the market are semi-automatic, regardless of how mean they look.  They fire ONE bullet per pull of the trigger.  Dress it up however you like, adding sights, accessory rails, etc, but they only fire one bullet at a time.  That technology has been around since the late 1800s.  Obtaining a legal permit to own a fully automatic weapon takes more than a few flaming hoop jumps, but can be done in some states. 

Magazine capacity has also been tossed about as a hot topic, but restricting that won't change anything.  A skilled magazine change takes just over a second with most semi auto weapons, so whether it has 30 rounds or 10, you just carry more mags to offset the difference.  Even revolvers have speed loaders, allowing you to fully load the cylinder in under four seconds.  Most modern 9mm pistols hold on average 14 rounds and are far more easily concealed than long guns.

Here's where people start to get upset with me....  My father was a gunsmith.  I grew up around more firepower than most average folks ever see unless they wander into a gun store.  My father once told me, "No gun ever crawled off the assembly line, loaded itself, and went out hunting people.  There's always a person involved."  Guns get all the blame for the actions of man, simple as that.  Take guns out of the picture, and man will still seek to harm man.  Your average crossbow will kill a person just as easily as a rifle, and functions just as simply.  "Well, they only fire one shot at a time..."  True, but they are nearly silent, offsetting that little reload issue. 

Tougher laws and restrictions only apply to the law abiding citizens out there.  It makes it more difficult for folks like me to buy a simple .22 to teach my kids to shoot with.  They do nothing to the criminal element.  If anything this entire situation only leads to more armed criminals taking advantage of unarmed citizens because there's no fear of reprisal.  No fear of encountering someone that may actually be able to defend themselves.  "Well, you don't need a military grade weapon to defend yourself with..."  Let's go back to the whole semi automatic aspect we talked about earlier.  Just because it looks scary, doesn't make it sling lead any faster.  I may want the same ability to move through my house with all the training I received in the military, but not have a three and a half foot shotgun leading the way.  At 3am, when I hear someone in my living room or hallway, I want the cards stacked in my favor, and so would you.  Gimme my 'military' looking gun, because I can get it around corners and on target faster.

'Gun Control' is controlling you gun, putting rounds where you intend them to go.  What we need is Criminal Control.  What we need is to understand that a weapon, be it a sword, crossbow, sling, cudgel, or assault rifle, cannot harm you by itself.  They all need help.  They all need the hand of man.  Instead of demonizing an item, we should be educating about them.  Now, if you'll all excuse me, I feel the need to burn a couple mags at the range.  Gonna take the kids along and make a little shooting competition out of it, loser cleans the cat's litter box for the week (I shoot a 2 inch group, so I won't be cleaning a damn thing)...
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Tommy Fox Stone

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Re: The Gun Control ideology
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2013, 04:04:42 am »

What a lot of people don't understand about guns is that appearance alone does not make it an 'assault rifle' or 'military grade'.  Most firearms on the market are semi-automatic, regardless of how mean they look.  They fire ONE bullet per pull of the trigger.  Dress it up however you like, adding sights, accessory rails, etc, but they only fire one bullet at a time.  That technology has been around since the late 1800s.  Obtaining a legal permit to own a fully automatic weapon takes more than a few flaming hoop jumps, but can be done in some states. 

Magazine capacity has also been tossed about as a hot topic, but restricting that won't change anything.  A skilled magazine change takes just over a second with most semi auto weapons, so whether it has 30 rounds or 10, you just carry more mags to offset the difference.  Even revolvers have speed loaders, allowing you to fully load the cylinder in under four seconds.  Most modern 9mm pistols hold on average 14 rounds and are far more easily concealed than long guns.

Here's where people start to get upset with me....  My father was a gunsmith.  I grew up around more firepower than most average folks ever see unless they wander into a gun store.  My father once told me, "No gun ever crawled off the assembly line, loaded itself, and went out hunting people.  There's always a person involved."  Guns get all the blame for the actions of man, simple as that.  Take guns out of the picture, and man will still seek to harm man.  Your average crossbow will kill a person just as easily as a rifle, and functions just as simply.  "Well, they only fire one shot at a time..."  True, but they are nearly silent, offsetting that little reload issue. 

Tougher laws and restrictions only apply to the law abiding citizens out there.  It makes it more difficult for folks like me to buy a simple .22 to teach my kids to shoot with.  They do nothing to the criminal element.  If anything this entire situation only leads to more armed criminals taking advantage of unarmed citizens because there's no fear of reprisal.  No fear of encountering someone that may actually be able to defend themselves.  "Well, you don't need a military grade weapon to defend yourself with..."  Let's go back to the whole semi automatic aspect we talked about earlier.  Just because it looks scary, doesn't make it sling lead any faster.  I may want the same ability to move through my house with all the training I received in the military, but not have a three and a half foot shotgun leading the way.  At 3am, when I hear someone in my living room or hallway, I want the cards stacked in my favor, and so would you.  Gimme my 'military' looking gun, because I can get it around corners and on target faster.

'Gun Control' is controlling you gun, putting rounds where you intend them to go.  What we need is Criminal Control.  What we need is to understand that a weapon, be it a sword, crossbow, sling, cudgel, or assault rifle, cannot harm you by itself.  They all need help.  They all need the hand of man.  Instead of demonizing an item, we should be educating about them.  Now, if you'll all excuse me, I feel the need to burn a couple mags at the range.  Gonna take the kids along and make a little shooting competition out of it, loser cleans the cat's litter box for the week (I shoot a 2 inch group, so I won't be cleaning a damn thing)...

Very will said...
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Arngrim

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Re: The Gun Control ideology
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2013, 12:43:36 am »

Welp... I'll just say my side and reasoning.

Restricting guns won't do anything. At worst, it makes us vulnerable. The Second Amendment was made so our government won't infringe on our rights to have gun, because the british did infringe our rights and took away the guns to try and keep everyone under control. So, we have our guns, automatic, semi-automatic, or other, because at any time, we might just have to make a revolution 2 in the history books from a government trying to make us submit to tyrannical law.
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SatsumaLord

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Re: The Gun Control ideology
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2014, 11:22:26 pm »

Hey there, SatsumaLord here; and even though I know this thread is relatively inactive, I had a question that I thought might be appropriate for this discussion.  :)

That question being, what are your thoughts on the new Open Carry movement that seems to be going on in states like Texas and California?  :?

Should people have the right to openly carry weapons (especially assault and automatic weapons) into public places?  Or is this movement causing a lot more harm than good for the pro-gun organizations out there?  Especially since so far, I've been hearing a lot more negative than positive feedback about this movement, mainly from people that are actually pro-gun.

Oh and for those that don't fully know what it is, the Open Carry movement is basically a grouping of gun owners that are openly carrying guns like AK-47s and AR-15s into restaurant chains like Chipotle and Chili's, as a form of protest against proponents for more anti-gun legislation.  And so far, not many people seem to be liking it; including the restaurant chains they're going into, who made it a point to ban said people for bringing in firearms due to causing an "uncomfortable and distressing atmosphere for their patrons".

Anyway, just thought I'd bring it up, in case anyone had something to say on the matter.
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Orbatrix

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Re: The Gun Control ideology
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2014, 11:35:30 am »


without commentry
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Amenshawn

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Re: The Gun Control ideology
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2014, 09:24:30 am »

Open carry...   Attention for the sake of attention.  In my opinion, possibly the worst manner in which one could approach the subject of firearm acceptance among the general public.  Education about, and exposure to, firearms is the best way to get the general, uneducated public to feel more comfortable with guns.  That said, there are appropriate venues for this sort of educational experience.  The guy with the MAK-90 slung across his back is simply making a spectacle of himself if he's in line at Arby's.

I grew up with gun racks on the back windows of pickups, ammo on the book shelves, and dad tearing apart various weapons at the dinner table.  I have a level of comfort around guns due to this childhood, but also a high level of respect for what they can do.  If more people were to actually educate themselves about firearms, they may actually start using the correct descriptions on the evening news and reporting the positive aspects of guns in our society.  Unfortunately, the media has it's own agenda, and that seems to be to make villains of every firearm on the planet. 

Man was killing man long before the advent of the firearm, so an educated person won't blame the firearm for the actions of man.  That's like complementing the hammer for the skills of a carpenter....
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Geneaux

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Re: The Gun Control ideology
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2014, 06:51:18 am »

I have to agree on Amenshawn's opinion of things.  Because it's PEOPLE'S ACTIONS that get other people killed when involving firearms.  A gun doesn't magically just jump up and shoot somebody, it's the person who has their finger on the trigger who kills somebody.  In fact, guns are also very useful weapons outside of protecting yourself from other people.  Bear threatening your life?  What do you grab?  A trusty gun?  Thought you'd answer with that.  Want to feed your family some exotic meat while hunting season is on?  What do you grab?  A rifle?  Again thought you'd answer with that.  See, guns may take lives, but it's what you do with the gun that decides whether you put a bullet through someone's head or use that same bullet to obtain some meat for your family.  Firearms are just tools of incredible power.  What is done with that power, is up to the person pulling the trigger.  Take that away and you take away the livelyhoods of those people whose lives actually DEPEND on their guns for survival.  Secondly, you make the people who can't have guns vulnerable to those who would shirk the law and carry guns anyway.  Gun regulations don't do shit, they won't do shit, and they never have done shit.  In fact, there are regulations in place to make sure that guns get into the hands of the responsible people, but guess what... THEY DON'T WORK 100% OF THE TIME!!!!  And therefore again, brings me to my previous point.  Gun regulations do jack shit.  As in ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to prevent guns from reaching criminals.  They'll just get their guns somewhere else.
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